Dear nCw

["Mr. Showtime" Johnny Holliday]

Ladies and Gentlemen of New Championship Wrestling,

I have a reputation for being banned from boards and e-feds and chatboxes for being rude, obnoxious, a ''troll'' or something along those lines for speaking my mind. I want to, clearly and unequivocally, state that I have no hostile intent whatsoever in the things I am about to say. Instead, my intent is to relay a few points I have been pondering over the past couple of months.

Also, please keep in mind these points:

1) I am not speaking on behalf of Jesse, who handles the character of Ander Carvetti.
2) I am not speaking on behalf of the handler of Roxxxie.
3) This is not to boast or brag about anything.
4) This is not to plead my case to win a match. If that was the case, I would have ninja'd this sh*t a few days ago.
5) I'm not looking to have my @$$ kissed.
6) This is not about losing the tag-team titles either, because...well, come on guys – it's a GAME.

At heart, I am an entertainer and a writer. It is something I was born to do. It's something I've been doing as a part of my profession for years. I'm published within the National Library of Poetry; I have to write nearly 130 letters of recommendation per week since I work at a University; I write stage scripts; I write sketch comedy; I'm the Director of Staff Training for a non-profit government inspection agency; I used to be a former adviser to the mayor of a town and submitted weekly reports about city development; I have been e-fedding since 1998. Needless to say, I'm not exactly 'new' to the whole writing thing.

So. I write.

Now, generally, I'd tend to go on a ridiculously p*ssed off rant about things that have gotten back to me. It's 11:30 at night, I have to be up in a few hours for work, and I'd rather not go into things I'd regret.

I understand that as judges, people have to read a LOT of roleplays every week. I also understand that when I put up 6,000 word posts, it makes things difficult for them to do their job when I'm putting up chapters of 'War & Peace' every week.

However, word reached back to me about my work being 'too long' and people would rather not read it at all and discard it as nothing is something that bothered me. I was told 'Quality doesn't mean quantity'...and I think whomever told me that (who can remain private) had it backwords. In so many words, this is how I took it: “Holliday's stuff is too long. Forget it, I'm not reading this.”

I think I need to take time to really analyze if I even care about e-fedding anymore. First, things were too short. Then, things were not color-coded. Now, too long. Of course, there's other intricacies about the pieces I write that have been heavily criticized (use of first-person narration, breaking the barrier between reader and narrator, profanity, etc.) - but never about length until now. Had that been the case, I would have suggested a word limit. I never really had considered it to happen, but I figured that my 'fire'...my drive to want to do this, is at an all-time low.

I wrote 'Eulogy' to keep it open as to whether or not it would be Holliday's final match.

Now, there are a couple of people who, in passing, have paid some compliment to what I have to bring to the table, and I thank you for that. Sincerely, I do.

There's a lot more I want to get out in the open (and will utilize this thread to do so), but it's late, and I think this is a good starting point for discussion. I'm posting it on the general board for EVERYONE to read if they so choose. How they wish to communicate to me, whether it be in this thread, AIM, private message, or calling me (since some have my number), that's your decision.

So – what is 'too long'? If such a thing does exist, why not put a limit on how long something could be (example: 2,500 words for a weekly show & 4,000 for a PPV)? If things flow easily enough to read, why would there be a problem? And, if there IS a problem, why not bring it to me in private as opposed to me having to hear it through that proverbial grapevine?

[Steven Luke]

Just want to point out that I gave you feedback a month ago because I read you PPV rp and it seemed to me that it was excessively long and stopped flowing about halfway through. I admittedly didn't read you last rp because I didn't have time but I'm also not a Booker. I really hope you hang around and work it out bit I wouldn't blame you if you walk away. If you don't feel comfortable with the thongs are going then you shouldn't be here.

["Mr. Showtime" Johnny Holliday]

if it doesn't flow, I mean that's something I personally have to work on. but thank you.

[Angel]

I also gave you feedback relatively recently about length.

Basically, your rps are very well written and over all I like the character, but it does seem to me that at some point your just writing for the sake of your rp being bigger than your opponents. I have always felt that if you take what you want to say and narrow it down to what you need to say it'll be a much more concise and overall dangerous rp to contend with. Take Venom or Velez for example, their rps are generally not very long, but what they say in them is dangerous and they tend to win. Falcon is another example, he just nails it in X number of words or less every week.

I feel like if you trimmed it up, cut the fat so to speak, your rps would flow that much better. As far as color coding or first person goes, it doesn't make a big difference to me. I float around on my general rp style allot of the time so I'm not going to judge.

Look, I hate to see someone talented walk away from nCw because their frustrated with the judging but this is how I approach it. There are at least three admins voting on all the results, those three people have to read every role play. Now if your me, you work 8 hours a day, you come home to a 4 year old daughter who doesn't just need you to pay attention to her, but deserves that attention, a brother who wants to hang out every Monday, a father you haven't seen in four years who suddenly wants to be your best friend and at least one day a week to go out with your buddy and pick up some comic books, reading rps just doesn't jell into that schedule in a seemly manner so most rps get read at the last minute one Saturday evening when everyone is asleep. Now when I'm jamming through rps, I don't care about grammar unless it's horrible, I don't care about color unless it's hard to read, I don't care about inner monologues or intros, I don't care about song lyrics or videos, if the rp doesn't flow, if it doesn't read easy, if it takes me a full on half an hour just to read and digest a single rp, I'm voting against that guy. I don't care if he just wrote the Bible, the Bible is a bit much in one sitting.

Maybe it's my fault for having allot on my plate, sorry, but that's just the way I vote and it's the way I've always voted. Your not the first person I gave feedback too where the only thing I could say was "shorten it up." Check out Sephiroth Du Lac's feedback thread I told him and his girl friend constantly to cut it down.

Like I said in your feedback, your a great writer, you could easily be a world champion, I would just like to see you tighten things up a little bit. None of us are new to this game, I've been rping since 99, so it's not like I'm some newb whining about it being too long. At the end of the day this is just my opinion and I hope you find something in it to help you in the future.

[Chuck Moss]

I feel like that you think you should win because you've written things professionally and have done this a long time. To me that doesn't mean jack when it comes to writing a wrestling promo, because wrestling is just a different thing, and e-fedding is a whole other animal than that. Honestly probably 99% of roleplays in e-feds would be terrible as real-life wrestling promos. E-fedding is just some weird hybrid, but you've been around a long time you know this. Perhaps sometimes your instincts as a writer overcome your instincts as an e-fedder and you blur the line too much.

As far as judging I've always felt it comes to down to personal opinion. There's no set guideline if an RP is good or not. Hell, you may have written the best RP of all time but if the judges for one reason or another felt that it wasn't as good as your opponents that's that. Sometimes it's just a matter of mood on whether a judge will like your RP or not.

Me, I've been e-fedding since 2003. I've won World Titles, and I've gone to places and been a complete jobber. After winning the National Title here my work has suffered for one reason or another, and some no-shows especially in the title match haven't exactly won anybody over. I'm going to come back strong hopefully these coming weeks, and I suggest you also try to do the same. If you get frustrated or bored in e-fedding it's extremely hard to bounce back sometimes though.

[Shane Hunt]

In terms of RP length, I'd say around 2000 words is plenty. I reckon you can easily rip your opponents a new hole in 2000 or so words, maybe less if you have the RPing skills and know exactly what you want to say. When RPs go way over that amount, they tend to get dull and things start getting repeated.

I completely agree with everything Chuck Moss has said. Past writing experience doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a great E-fedder.

[Leonard Fox]

I don't remember who said it, or exactly how the quote went... but the basic point of it was something like this.

"You're a writer, writing to an audience... if you're audience says it's too long and hard to follow... then it's too long and hard to follow, no matter how you try and justify it."

Which is pretty much what we all as writers need to realize. It's not about how the work comes out to you, you're not writing to yourself, it's about how the work is perceived by the people reading it. You write for yourself(it's something you love to do), you're not writing to yourself.

When the majority of people who read a work say it couldn't hold their attention because it was too long, then it's honestly just flat out too long. They are the audiance, the judges, they are who you're trying to impress, they are right and you're not. You can either argue it and say the majority of people are wrong, or you can accept the feedback and try and to work better at pleasing your readers.

Lastly: Something that always bugged me... when anybody gets the feedback that it's too long and they take offense to it, they always want to come back with the argument that "who's to say what is too long? Where should I cut my RPs off at?".... just because you cut an RP down to say 1500 words doesn't mean that it's going to be instantly just long enough for everybody to read and enjoy. When somebody tells you the roleplay was "too long" they mean it stopped flowing, it no longer held their attention. If you can write an RP that is 10,000 words long and it holds my attention from beginning to end, then it wasn't too long at all despite having a high word count. "Too Long" DOES NOT mean "number of words" and it never has.

[Curtis D. Kanyon]

I was a world champ somewhere else with a lot of guys who wrote novels. I didn't write novels, but when I became the champ, I felt like I needed to write as much as them to stay at the top, so I did. At first, it wasn't too bad, but eventually, I just got tired of writing so much, when my usual style is straight to the point with some comedy mixed in for fun. I stopped having fun. So I went back to my normal ways and have had fun ever since. And my shorter RP with no color coding style won me a world title here. Sure, I put the coding in now, but I waited until after I lost the belt. So you don't need color coding. You also don't need it to be long. But if long makes you have fun, then have fun. If you're doing long RPs to have long RPs and it's a struggle and you end up losing anyway, then stop doing it. Usually, admins can tell if your having fun, because when your having fun, the flow is better and the mood is better. If your struggling, things tend to get stuck, flow isn't that great, etc. So just have fun. As long as you have fun with it, you'll be happy win or lose.

[destroyyou555]

Look at me, I won a World Title here, without using spellchecker and proper english

[Xavier Williams]

Jan 15, 2011 22:45:26 GMT -6 @destroyyou555 said:

Look at me, I won a World Title here, without using spellchecker and proper english

[Spike Kane]

Dude, seriously.....efedding is a constantly evolving thing. When I started back in 96 a three paragraph five hundred roleplay was awesome. Now people don't want to just see your character rip into his oppnenet, they want to see story, they want to see development, humour and drama.

In my time I have notched up some classics, some that have made my opponents feel like they couldn't even bother replying, some that have made myself cry. I fell into the trap of trying to use too much emotion in my roleplays and look people still give me **** about it, because I overused it.

But the thing you need to remember at the end of the day, is the core of what you write, is wrestling, and we all know that the average attention span of an efedder is squat. Some people here write far too much, some people don't write enough, and some hit the nail on the head week in week out. Like Randy, I fell into the trap of thinking because I was the champion I had to write six roleplays a week of 3,000 words plus....but that just waters down your ideas.

Personally, I never set a target, I rearely plan things out; I just have a basic idea and go for it, usually making **** up as I go along, a lot of the time I stop when I think it'sdone, othertimes I drag it out and it means the roleplay ends on a downer because you lose the focus.....it's all about individuality, you the roleplayer need to think "OK that's enough for Episode One this week" that is....before you actually become Episode One [/burn]

Keep at it, I've done some professional writing yet I still value every single one of the guys heres opinions....yes, even Shiyen, when he's not busy killing me on Blops.

[JFK]

I just love unloading my load on your face...

KISS, keep it simple stupid, people want to be entertained, if it drags too long, I WILL click that x and not read it,

quality over quantity.

And remember, it's just a game, its creative writing with others, have fun with it, hell I did a rp that was 3 lines long, and I think I won that match lol. (granted it was the 2nd rp of the week but thats besides the point)

[Cliff Clinton]

There's no "problem", good sir.

We've been open too long and dealt with way worse "prima donnas" then you seem to be to have "problems".

Honestly dude, I like your stuff. You obviously have the talent but hey, you cant fight off a unanimous decision. Your stuff just ends up too long, breaking the flow, and therefore bringing the overall feel down.

Have you ever seen that movie "Funny People" with Adam Sandler? Directed by Judd Apatow. When I first started watching it, I was into it. I was laughing and getting to know the characters and just immersed in the story. But what I didnt realize was that the movie was over two hours long! Sometimes thats okay, but not this one. Everytime I thought the movie was going to end, nope heres more. Oh look, another potential ending? Nope heres a little more. And it just gets to a point where I dont care anymore. The jokes are funny, the story is deep, but dear God just end the movie already!

Thats kind of how I feel with your rps. I start out like....okay Im digging this. This guy obviously knows how to write, ha, that was a funny joke....okay heres the hard hitting ending....nope heres a little more.....okay heres the end.....nope theres more.....

If you have more to your story that you feel you need to tell, feel free to post it in the Devo section. Not everything has to be jam packed into an rp, especially if your in a tag match and you only get one rp a week.

As rper's we have multiple opportunities to keep our stories and arcs going. Leave a little for your next installment, keep people wanting to wait to see how the story goes.

[Freakke]

Stiff upper lip chap. Give'em hell and all that what.

No, seriously, your a pretty damned good writer. Better than even mwah(not hard to accomplish actually(but your still really good)). I struggled with a length and how to convey my message as well, albeit at the other end of the spectrum, short, pointless, and not even funny in most cases. The truth is, you need to find something your comfortable with as a writer. You also need to remember, you are writing for an audience. Yes the judges read your promos, but so do the other players, as a point of competition and for entertainment. That said, we are in a sense, entertainers. Keep this in mind as yes, you do want to write something you like, but also, what would your audience like and how best to format to both your own and their needs. You don't show chimpanzees Shakespeare and expect them to be entertained. No! You show them a banana. Because the banana speaks to them, it seems to understand them and they understand the banana. They like the banana. However, if you hold the banana away from the chimps too long, they will quickly lose patience, attention, and the contents of their bowels and seek other bananas to oggle. Thus you must learn how far away to place your proverbial banana so that it draws out the experience, but also makes it accessible(which is what has been said by just about everyone else in less comical, and far less fruit invaded posts). Be warned however of the rare occurrence of John Cleese's for they will usurp your banana and train Royal Marines to defend themselves against it. This is a rare occurrence however and should only be feared if you live in Britain or are otherwise clearly insane.

And Now For Something Completely Different

[Hugo Conway]

I believe in quality over quantity. I think as Moss stated efedding is it's own thing and to often people with degrees in the field take exception to losing and in some cases (not necessarily pertaining to you) feel superior to those who don't have those degrees...

This is my first fed, I am not a great writer doing this. However I am also in college and will have a degree in writing when i have finished.

I try very hard when I do this. I have little to no reward for it and I have never asked for one. I really like when I occasionally see a Kelly Knite call me "the future" though.

Just to have the stuff read is appreciation enough for me. That's just me though. I am not into the politicking on online games.

[Ron Gibson]

Jan 19, 2011 12:39:53 GMT -6 JFK said:

I just love unloading my load on your face...

oh hai, we need to get together soon.

Too stay on topic and provide some valuable insight to this guy. So his career here takes unusual highs and lows. Hell anyone can use this advice because honestly it has helped me over the years. Even if your a champion here, you always need ron to lend a hand. In this case it might help this guy more but your more than welcomed to borrow this lesson from my experiences. I'm only going to say this once.... so pin this thread for the future.

****... forgot what I was going to say.

["Mr. Showtime" Johnny Holliday]

Oh Christ, I forgot I even wrote this.

Yeah...I had a talk with AK. It's going to take me some adjusting, but we'll see where it goes. And thank you for the insight guys.