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Post by Angel on Mar 21, 2008 21:11:12 GMT -6
The other one got off topic.
What I want to know is why WWE seemingly no longer cares about what the fans want? I've seriously stopped watching WWE. Every monday Falcon comes over, and we watch Impact from last Thursday on my DVR. Tuesdays, I go to sleep. And Fridays I play online all night and drink. So tell me, why does WWE not care. I mean, Cena, sucks, HHH, used to be cool, now sucks. Orton is okay. I don't mind him so much. Hardy, got a push, then s**t on. Shelton, clueless on what to do with him. CM Punk, only a matter of time till he's on Raw, and the new Jeff Hardy, meaning he'll get pushed then jobbed, pushed then jobbed. Jericho, should have gone to TNA, where he would have mattered. He's right back where he was two years ago. Big Show, who cares? Taker, too old, stupid feuds. Edge, wasted. Batista, boring.... I mean come on. I can't even think of one thing I like. They have killed ECW. Dreamer has become the biggest pile of crap. Balls isn't even on TV. It's like people keep watching only hoping it'll get better. I want someone to name one good thing about WWE right now.
As far as TNA goes. I have very, very few complaints. Off hand... their editing sucks sometimes. Some of their talent can't cut promos... And... I don't know, they could probably use a second show to better show case both the knockouts and X divisions. Aside from those minor things, I can't think of anything... Oh, bring back Raven and re hire Vampiro. That's it. So like four complaints verus what? Pretty much everything that is WWE progammng...
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Post by Joe Everyman on Mar 21, 2008 21:51:30 GMT -6
*Accepts challenge*
One good thing about WWE: Their house shows can actually be entertaining. The one I went to was very good
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Post by Adam on Mar 21, 2008 21:54:00 GMT -6
The other one got off topic. What I want to know is why WWE seemingly no longer cares about what the fans want? I've seriously stopped watching WWE. Every monday Falcon comes over, and we watch Impact from last Thursday on my DVR. Tuesdays, I go to sleep. And Fridays I play online all night and drink. So tell me, why does WWE not care. I mean, Cena, sucks, HHH, used to be cool, now sucks. Orton is okay. I don't mind him so much. Hardy, got a push, then s**t on. Shelton, clueless on what to do with him. CM Punk, only a matter of time till he's on Raw, and the new Jeff Hardy, meaning he'll get pushed then jobbed, pushed then jobbed. Jericho, should have gone to TNA, where he would have mattered. He's right back where he was two years ago. Big Show, who cares? Taker, too old, stupid feuds. Edge, wasted. Batista, boring.... I mean come on. I can't even think of one thing I like. They have killed ECW. Dreamer has become the biggest pile of crap. Balls isn't even on TV. It's like people keep watching only hoping it'll get better. I want someone to name one good thing about WWE right now. As far as TNA goes. I have very, very few complaints. Off hand... their editing sucks sometimes. Some of their talent can't cut promos... And... I don't know, they could probably use a second show to better show case both the knockouts and X divisions. Aside from those minor things, I can't think of anything... Oh, bring back Raven and re hire Vampiro. That's it. So like four complaints verus what? Pretty much everything that is WWE progammng... I'm with you, ask Trent, one night I told him "I'm never watching WWE again" that was I believe over 2 years ago and I haven't watched sense. I try and keep up with some of the things going on however. TNA isn't bad at all IMO. I watch it every now and then, but it seems to have the same problem WCW had, the bookers just don't do that good of a job. They don't take advantage of the areas where they are vastly better than WWE, just like WCW never fully took advantage of their amazing Cruiserweigh division, TNA doesn't take advantage of their X-Division or Knockout division. Two areas that I believe they are superior to WWE in. They also need to stop focusing so much on Fat Ass..... I mean Samoa Joe. He's got some decent ability but how much can one person hear "Samoa Joe! He's so amazing! Look how athletic he is!" before it gets sickening?
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Post by Joe Everyman on Mar 21, 2008 21:58:27 GMT -6
Completely agreed. If TNA wants them to survive, the world title will go on a X guy, the tag titles will go on X guys and the X Division title will go on the best X guy they got. Same here in WWE...give titles to people who deserve them and not to people who absolutly suck
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Post by Ricky Johnson on Mar 21, 2008 22:03:32 GMT -6
And will say the following:
Cena does suck. But as long he's marketable, he'll be shoved right down our throats.
HHH wouldn't be anybody if he wasn't plowing Steph. You can say, "HHH is a hard worker, he loves the business." I'm sure he wouldn't if he was counting the lights every night.
Orton, Santino, and Jericho, are the only reasons to watch Raw. Santino owns.
MVP, The Undertaker, and Edge are the only reason Smackdown is even remotely entertaining.
ECW is unwatchable. I would be ok if They were actually able to branch on their own and work their own style, but since they are smackdown's BITCH, it won't happen.
My complaint on TNA are, like Angel's few and far between:
Shark Boy: Seriously, it's funny, but it's already old.
Curry Man: Just come back Fallen Angel, please?
The X-Division: If you're still there....please speak to me!
Kevin Nash: You weren't good when you were young, age hasn't helped.
You know what.......It's time bring back my thoughts....I shall yes.
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Post by Angel on Mar 21, 2008 22:50:05 GMT -6
TNA needs a second show, IMO. A second "B" show could be devoted to the X division and the Knockouts. That way they could keep all the "A" list talent on Impact, and basically promote that.
While I like TNA. They do need to use what they got. Jay Lethal is the man. Hands down, the man. However I would love it if AJ Styles would get back into the X division where he belongs.
CurryMan. Awesome. I personally have no problem with Curry Man or Shark Boy. They are perfect for what they are intended to be. And who wouldn't want to see Shark Boy win the X title and walks around with a "smoking fish" title?
Tag division is great. If only for the fact that there are more than three tag teams at any time. Or the fact that they don't break up after they lose the titles. Only thing I'd like is tag team names. To me it just adds another level to the team, like these guys are serious.
Samoa Joe. Awesome wrestler. Deserves the belt. What I feel they need to do is give Joe the belt now. TNA is good, but they need to show that a "TNA" guy can be champion, and stay champion. So far, most of their long term champions are x WWE guys. Joe is there chance to really put one of their guys over. Can Joe carry TNA on to challenge Raw in a ratings war? IMO, no. Can Joe make them competition for Smackdown, and crush ECW in the ratings? Yes. I think he can. I think Joe as champion would add that extra feeling that this is something different.
Who could make TNA competition for Raw then? I don't know. I don't think TNA has found their Hogan, or Austin, or Rock. I think their close though.
Something I'd like to see TNA do however is a real stable. Equiped with a actual name, not something alliance. Equiped with a actual main eventer,mid carder, tag team, and possibly manager. Their own theme that they all use. A common mission. Whether it be like nWo, to take over TNA, like DX, to say f-you TNA, or even something new. Maybe just a group of guys, TNA originals, who are tired of being ignored. Say Joe, Lethal, the Machine Guns, and James Mitchell... Just throwing names together.
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Post by Joe Everyman on Mar 21, 2008 23:04:36 GMT -6
Want I would love to see with a stable to be is a TNA originals vs. newer WWE guys. Do like Angle, Booker, Sting (I know, not WWE), Rhyno and Christian vs. Styles, Lethal, MCMG, Abyss and Jarrett.
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Post by Dante Cross on Mar 22, 2008 5:10:22 GMT -6
In other news, Vertigo Dirtmurder and Kevin Nash held off about 15 Tag Team tonight in SVR2008 online, When Nash showcased.....FIGHTING SPIRIT
Suplex off the ladder to the Outside....Fighting Spirit
Batista Bomb thru a Table.....Fighting Spirit
Chokeslam to the Outside....Fighting Spirit
But Nash may suck horribly in the ring, but is extremely entertaining on the Stick, I seriously, could watch TNA all the time if it was the Kevin Nash open Mic night.
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Post by Spike Kane on Mar 22, 2008 5:48:32 GMT -6
I just wanna say, nobody gives a **** about the knockouts. They cant wrestle, their just their to look good.
The X Division sets TNA apart which is why I liked TNA in the first place, but lately thanks to RJ I've got some RoH DVD's and the wrestling on that?
Owns the **** out of everything else. Yes, a majority of the wrestlers are also in TNA and some even in the WWE nowadays, but the thing is I don't want to watch fourty five minutes of ****ing advertising, promos and semi naked women trying to get me to masturbate (If I wanted to look at porn, ID LOOK AT PORN!) And then..what? 10/15 minutes of wrestling?
No, thats bull****...I just wish stuff like TNa and RoH was around when I was younger, so I could be better educated in the wrestling business.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 11:04:24 GMT -6
I just wanna say, nobody gives a f**k about the knockouts. They cant wrestle, their just their to look good. The X Division sets TNA apart which is why I liked TNA in the first place, but lately thanks to RJ I've got some RoH DVD's and the wrestling on that? Owns the f**k out of everything else. Yes, a majority of the wrestlers are also in TNA and some even in the WWE nowadays, but the thing is I don't want to watch fourty five minutes of f**king advertising, promos and semi naked women trying to get me to masturbate (If I wanted to look at porn, ID LOOK AT PORN!) And then..what? 10/15 minutes of wrestling? No, thats bulls**t...I just wish stuff like TNa and RoH was around when I was younger, so I could be better educated in the wrestling business. ROH blows donkey nuts. Spike... what do you expect about the advertising? They're on TV, they have to use advertisements to make money that's how television works. ROH can give you a DVD advert free because you have to pay to watch every show of theirs. I don't have to pay to see Raw or TNA, I just have to pay my dish bill and I get over 160 channels by doing that. I'd pay 20 dollars just to see ROH try and manage their shows within the confines of a timeslot. They wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't have their hour long matches for their smark fan base.
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Post by Spike Kane on Mar 22, 2008 11:09:55 GMT -6
See?
Just so uneducated am I
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 11:15:42 GMT -6
See? Just so uneducated am I Well I agree with you about the promos....... Don't you just love it when WWE has this like 15 minute promo featuring McMahon trying to get somebody to kiss his bare bottom.... then the next match only lasts 4 minutes?
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Post by Spike Kane on Mar 22, 2008 11:22:47 GMT -6
or they show what happened last week........every ten fcking minutes
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Post by recklessjack on Mar 22, 2008 11:32:03 GMT -6
ROH blows donkey nuts. Spike... what do you expect about the advertising? They're on TV, they have to use advertisements to make money that's how television works. ROH can give you a DVD advert free because you have to pay to watch every show of theirs. I don't have to pay to see Raw or TNA, I just have to pay my dish bill and I get over 160 channels by doing that. I'd pay 20 dollars just to see ROH try and manage their shows within the confines of a timeslot. They wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't have their hour long matches for their smark fan base. And long matches are bad why? Seriously, Ring of Honor is a niche promotion. It's not for everyone so why go around bashing it? Every federation in the world has it's flaws to a wrestling fan. Even the ROHbots will bash on **** they don't like within Ring of Honor. Apparently, you aren't too familiar with www.rohvideos.com where they are now posting full matches from out of sale DVDs along with their newswires where they show the new releases FOR FREE! So uh, don't think you gotta pay for that outside of your internet bill. But like I said, Ring of Honor and their shows isn't for everyone. They rarely let them go over 30 minutes these days. The last time they went for a normal match with not any iron man rules attached was, I think, back in 2006 when Bryan Danielson was the World Champion. So go ahead and have your misconceptions on what this product is.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 11:47:07 GMT -6
ROH blows donkey nuts. Spike... what do you expect about the advertising? They're on TV, they have to use advertisements to make money that's how television works. ROH can give you a DVD advert free because you have to pay to watch every show of theirs. I don't have to pay to see Raw or TNA, I just have to pay my dish bill and I get over 160 channels by doing that. I'd pay 20 dollars just to see ROH try and manage their shows within the confines of a timeslot. They wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't have their hour long matches for their smark fan base. And long matches are bad why? Seriously, Ring of Honor is a niche promotion. It's not for everyone so why go around bashing it? Every federation in the world has it's flaws to a wrestling fan. Even the ROHbots will bash on s**t they don't like within Ring of Honor. Apparently, you aren't too familiar with www.rohvideos.com where they are now posting full matches from out of sale DVDs along with their newswires where they show the new releases FOR FREE! So uh, don't think you gotta pay for that outside of your internet bill. But like I said, Ring of Honor and their shows isn't for everyone. They rarely let them go over 30 minutes these days. The last time they went for a normal match with not any iron man rules attached was, I think, back in 2006 when Bryan Danielson was the World Champion. So go ahead and have your misconceptions on what this product is. Hey, they're growing and getting smarter, that's good. I'd still like to see them try and produce a show where they have to deal with a timeslot, censors, and having to listen to what the network will allow on TV. Just because they're releasing old matches for viewing doesn't mean I'm going to shell out my hard earned cash to watch some match that should have ended ten minutes earlier.
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Post by recklessjack on Mar 22, 2008 11:50:55 GMT -6
Well, the problem with a TV deal is that it'd probably really hurt them. With the pay per view buys being pretty horrible, a TV deal is really the last they they'd need at this point. However, their goals for this year, that I've read somewhere, are that to not let the shows go so long and have the wrestlers and the fans tone down the cussing and what not. They're trying to build themselves for it but I don't see it for another few years if they're still around.
But I'd still rather watch a twenty minute match with no run ins then a ten minute match where the whole locker room comes out to interfere.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 12:00:54 GMT -6
Well, the problem with a TV deal is that it'd probably really hurt them. With the pay per view buys being pretty horrible, a TV deal is really the last they they'd need at this point. However, their goals for this year, that I've read somewhere, are that to not let the shows go so long and have the wrestlers and the fans tone down the cussing and what not. They're trying to build themselves for it but I don't see it for another few years if they're still around. But I'd still rather watch a twenty minute match with no run ins then a ten minute match where the whole locker room comes out to interfere. With a promotion that size, a TV deal would do nothing but harm them I suspect. It's good that they have goals to get there though, as that will only force them to make their product better, even if they can't get a TV deal. Also I'd rather see a good match, just because a match goe 30 minutes, there are no run ins, and has 50 spots.... doesn't make it great either.
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Post by recklessjack on Mar 22, 2008 12:03:48 GMT -6
Yeah, look at what the TV deal did for the old ECW and since Gabe Saplosky was in ECW, I'm sure he's not going to make the same mistakes. Their main problem right now is having around ten matches per show. Their best show, in my opinion, only had around eight matches and none of them went over twenty minutes so the crowd never got burnt out. That's another problem they've been having is burning the crowd out before they get to the main event.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 12:09:03 GMT -6
Yeah, look at what the TV deal did for the old ECW and since Gabe Saplosky was in ECW, I'm sure he's not going to make the same mistakes. Their main problem right now is having around ten matches per show. Their best show, in my opinion, only had around eight matches and none of them went over twenty minutes so the crowd never got burnt out. That's another problem they've been having is burning the crowd out before they get to the main event. That's what happens when it seems like every show and every match is made to be "PPV caliber" You get a lot of attention but the effect dies out fast. If you have two guys wrestle a best of 5 series and every match is a 40 minutes classic..... I'm sure during the last match you'll have a lot of people saying "I've seen this before, big deal" It reminds me of the old efedding days. Where every week there was hell in a cell match or TLC match, and the world title was on the line every week. After a while even great wrestlers grow stale if they are just doing the same thing over and over.
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Post by recklessjack on Mar 22, 2008 12:10:49 GMT -6
I'll agree with you on that. I seriously HATED the last half of 2007 for Ring of Honor for the simple fact that they tried to do that. Ugh.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 12:21:13 GMT -6
I'll agree with you on that. I seriously HATED the last half of 2007 for Ring of Honor for the simple fact that they tried to do that. Ugh. If ROH could find a good balance, they'd be a half decent promotion. They have some talented wrestlers, just need to utilize them better and get their shows more organized with a mix between great in ring action, good promos and skits, and start some solid angles that aren't solely based on in ring respect (I hate those, because they're seldomly done right).
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Post by recklessjack on Mar 22, 2008 12:26:03 GMT -6
They actually have some good promo guys. Kevin Steen, Larry Sweeney, etc. The angles are getting better too. But at the same time, if they do too much, they're gonna kill off their fanbase and that'll cause the production to go under.
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Post by Steve Awesome on Mar 22, 2008 13:19:40 GMT -6
Idk about you guys but I got into wrestling for the whole strory line concept. Its like the male soap opera in a way. Action, hot girls, suspenseful stories.....or at least thats the way it used to be.
Now everybody knows everything ahead of time and completely ruins the story and then solely focus on the wrestling, where not everybody is going to be the best ever.
Trust me.. I like watching a good match where the wrestlers are getting it done but I want the storyline too. Otherwise Id just watch UFC or something.
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Post by Angel on Mar 22, 2008 13:19:51 GMT -6
I've watched some ROH on youtube. Not enough to fully comment on it. I liked what I saw. It was a eight minute match with Nigel McGuiness??? against some jobber. Solid match considering there didn't seem to be an angle around it.
I wouldn't mind ROH continue their bi monthly ppv, with a weekly online show. Broad cast like four taped matches on their site, with some back stage stuff. Like a baby step towards a real TV show. That way someone like me could watch their online show, then buy the ppv, and not feel completely lost.
As much as I'd like to relive the big three of the 90's, I would much rather just see some good wrestling, good talent, and the right guys getting pushed at the right time. Which TNA is trying to do.
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JFK
Senior Member
Sucks to be you.
Posts: 950
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Post by JFK on Mar 22, 2008 16:14:44 GMT -6
roh isnt ment to be, nor will it ever be, a main stream form of wrestling, and it's fine with that. as far as the sport it self goes and the story telling within a match roh can not...will not be beaten. Their wrestlers are too damn talented and a lot of em "get it" as to what a good match should be.
as far as tna goes, well, it was good at one time, but then dusty when back to the E and saved ECW from being a complete cluster**** and has turned that show around to be actually watchable.
mvp and kennedy>all of tna right now.
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Post by Angel on Mar 22, 2008 19:47:13 GMT -6
I disagree sir. ECW is by no means watchable. Besides a show shouldn't be watchable. It should be entertaining, which ECW is not. I mean if you like it, thats fine. But I can't even enjoy CM Punk matches anymore because there so "WWEified" ECW has a number of talented people on the roster, more so than smackdown, but they don't do anything with them. Why does Shelton need to have a winning streak to matter? The dude can out perfrom 80% of the roster. He doesn't need to be a black HHH to get over. Kofi, he's pretty cool. But again he doesn't need a *** damn streak to get over. It's like if Vince can't figure out how to give a guy a push, he just makes them Goldberg. It worked for Goldberg, it's not going to work for every other jack ass that walks through the door.
I watch Impact usually three times. When it first airs, saturday night, and again on Monday while Raw is on. Each time I enjoy it a little more. Personally, I feel it's only a matter of time before TNA is matching Raw for ratings.
Also, anyone notice that it's like 1998 again? WWE has become WCW, in that they are on top, they have three shows, and they have all the "A" talent. TNA is like the old WWF, where their struggling to catch up, and grabbing anyone who leaves the "A" program. And ROH in a way is like old ECW. They have a niche fan base and bi monthly PPVs. Little strange.
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 20:11:12 GMT -6
I disagree sir. ECW is by no means watchable. Besides a show shouldn't be watchable. It should be entertaining, which ECW is not. I mean if you like it, thats fine. But I can't even enjoy CM Punk matches anymore because there so "WWEified" ECW has a number of talented people on the roster, more so than smackdown, but they don't do anything with them. Why does Shelton need to have a winning streak to matter? The dude can out perfrom 80% of the roster. He doesn't need to be a black HHH to get over. Kofi, he's pretty cool. But again he doesn't need a damn streak to get over. It's like if Vince can't figure out how to give a guy a push, he just makes them Goldberg. It worked for Goldberg, it's not going to work for every other jack ass that walks through the door. I watch Impact usually three times. When it first airs, saturday night, and again on Monday while Raw is on. Each time I enjoy it a little more. Personally, I feel it's only a matter of time before TNA is matching Raw for ratings. Also, anyone notice that it's like 1998 again? WWE has become WCW, in that they are on top, they have three shows, and they have all the "A" talent. TNA is like the old WWF, where their struggling to catch up, and grabbing anyone who leaves the "A" program. And ROH in a way is like old ECW. They have a niche fan base and bi monthly PPVs. Little strange. Watching five minutes of the ECW Brand makes me vomit. I wasn't expecting it to be as good as the old ECW, but I was hoping McMahon would atleast try and bring back some of the magic. The ECW one night stand PPV's were good and seemed to capture the essence of ECW, why couldn't they translate that to the new ECW Brand is beyond me.
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Reckoning
Full Member
White Gangsta
Posts: 545
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Post by Reckoning on Mar 22, 2008 20:15:03 GMT -6
Anybody else predict ECW would suck when 'ECW Rules' became a ****ing match type?
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Post by Adam on Mar 22, 2008 20:16:45 GMT -6
Anybody else predict ECW would suck when 'ECW Rules' became a f**king match type? The minute they said "The following is an ECW Rules match" and I believe Styles said "This is our nightly Xtreme rules match" my response was "enough of this crap". So I promptly switched channels.
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Reckoning
Full Member
White Gangsta
Posts: 545
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Post by Reckoning on Mar 22, 2008 20:22:05 GMT -6
God, I wouldn't be surprised if Styles kills himself after calling an ECW Rules match between Big Daddy V and Boogeyman......
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